2012 Speedgoat 50k Results

Speedgoat 50kThis year’s Speedgoat 50k was a scorcher with six men going under the old course record. Kilian Jornet crossed the finish first and is the winner, but the prize money will drop down to Rickey Gates (2nd – $2,500), Max King (3rd – $1,000), and Anton Krupicka (4th – $500) as Kilian repeatedly cut switchbacks, which is not allowed in American trail racing. Rickey Gates also won the $1,000 prime to the top and is credited with the course record, which is good for another $500, giving Gates a $4,000 payday! Update: You can now watch Karl give an explanation on his ruling as well as read the International Skyrunning Federation’s response.

Anna Frost (post-race interview) dominated the women’s race, winning by half an hour. She also won the $1,000 Queen of the Mountain prime for a $3,500 haul. Frost did not best Keri Nelson’s course record of 6:20. Brand new Salomon runner Kerrie Bruxvoort was second while local runners Sarah Evans and Emily Sullivan where third and fourth, respectively.

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2012 Speedgoat 50k Men’s Unofficial Results

  1. Kilian Jornet (Salomon) – 5:14:10
  2. Rickey Gates (Salomon) – 5:18:27
  3. Max King (Montrail) – 5:23:10
  4. Anton Krupicka (New Balance) – 5:23:36
  5. Thomas Lorblanchet (Salomon) – 5:38:51
  6. Philipp Reiter (Salomon) – 5:40:11
  7. Jason Schlarb (Hoka One One) – 5:44:26
  8. Dylan Bowman (Pearl Izumi) – 5:47:39
  9. Jason Loutitt (The North Face) – 5:49:10
  10. Nick Clark (Pearl Izumi) – 5:53:20

Full results.

Kilian Jornet - 2012 Speedgoat 50k

Kilian Jornet on his way to winning the Speedgoat 50k. Photo: iRunFar/Bryon Powell

2012 Speedgoat 50k Women’s Unofficial Results

  1. Anna Frost (Salomon) – 6:26:23
  2. Kerrie Bruxvoort (Salomon) 6:56:33
  3. Sarah Evans – 6:58:51
  4. Emily Sullivan – 7:10:03
  5. Denise Bourassa (Patagonia) – 7:31:54
  6. Silke Koester – 7:31:59
  7. Jen Benna – 7:34:07
  8. Mindy Campbell – 7:45:13
  9. Gina Lucrezi – 7:48:56
  10. Missy Gosney – 7:51:17

Full results.

Anna Frost - 2012 Speedgoat 50k

Anna Frost en route to winning the Speedgoat 50k. Photo: iRunFar/Bryon Powell

2012 Speedgoat 50k Articles, Race Reports, and More

Race Reports

Men

Women

There are 292 comments

  1. Craig

    Eventually I think we can assume Killian will speak to the reasons for what he did. He's classy enough to take responsibility for his own race, I don't think we need to speculate and point fingers. Also, Karl is as good and professional a race director as you will find on this planet. He wants what's best for his race, the course, and its participants. I'm sure the decision he made was appropriate and everyone involved agreed (I would assume even Killian did). Until Karl or Killian speak on their own behalf speculating and talking down at either party is out of line.

    What stands out most to me about this race was Anna's performance. She came in run-down and in her own words "under-trained" for this distance. And look what she did? It's absolutely incredible. Go Frosty!

        1. Craig

          And somehow I missed those older comments. Weird. It's funny that is how Killian put that because I had someone asking me about this whole thing yesterday and my perspective was that "he was probably following Sky Running/Racing rules", which I'm familiar with. Bottom line is Killian is a class act and was acting on his own judgement. Awesome race overall. Wish I could have run.

  2. mark

    Locally it's understood that you have to stay on trail, racing or not. From that perspective, locals understand there's a rule to not cut the course. We know how hard it is to get permitting from the NFS and we're scared of losing our privileges for races and trail usage. Karl takes his privileges very seriously. An example, at the race briefing he made us all verbally take an oath to not set foot in the streams. We are drinking that water up there in 24 hours.

    I'm sure KJ and any others who cut just don't understand this. I can't imagine they'd disrespect Karl, snowbird or the NFS.

  3. Anonymous

    We all love the mountains, and that's why we go run in them. In a race situation, with 150, 300, 2500 participants, do we really need a rule that says you need to follow the path, in any mountain whatsoever… it's call common sense. Love the mountain ?, well respect it, protect' it, period. You want an example (extreme) ? Deforestation of the Mont Ventoux led to its looks (lunar moon, no vegetation on top).

    That said, Kilian is still King and i'm sure he will follow the future written rules (or verbal), and he will win anyways.

  4. Dave

    Tough situation for Karl to be in.. and a political one at that given there are sponsors like Salomon, Hoka, and Skrunning, all of whom have invested in the sport with investments at stake. This is apparently the decision made by Karl which will rock the boat the least, and in my eye is not the correct one. If 98% percent of the field knew it was wrong to shortcut, then the 2% should have known as well. Not speaking the language and making assumptions is no excuse.

    Folks this is not the first time this has happened with Skyrunning in the US. As Buzz said it happened at Pikes Peak in 2004 with the winner "unaware" of the rules. It also happened in the late 90's at an Aspen Skyrace with elite runners who won the race. And where they are from has nothing to do with it IMO. To say an intelligent person like Kilian (or Rickey, etc) was not aware of how race rules and environmental concerns go in the US is doubtful at best.

  5. Sam Winebaum

    I never ever cut switchbacks and neither should any user of alpine trails racing or otherwise .

    This said a decent part of the race was on terrain which sees a lot of disturbance from the ski operations: jeep roads, cat tracks, densely packed snow melting quickly in spring, etc… and as result requires revegetation and erosion control efforts. Snowbird does a great job mitigating but unfortunately a good part of Snowbird is not what one might call pristine.

  6. Roger Soto

    I just think it's a bit funny how some people defend the purity of mountain running by not cutting turns, but then think it's ok to have two different pacers in a single race or 5 people crews in every aid station. In my opinion: no pacers, no crews, no cutting turns = one man vs. one mountain. And that applies to everyone, EU and the US.

    Also, if you want to apply rules, apply them all. I am pretty confident the ISF rules say clearly that all runners must carry some mandatory gear (I don't remember all, but a windproof jacket for sure) and I think none of the top dogs had one. So the real winner strictly following the rules should be the first guy in, not cutting turns, AND carrying mandatory gear.

    1. Anonymous

      …isn't what it is suppose to be, facing this physical and mental challenge all by yourself. i would never use a pacer… On the mandatory gear, at the UTMB, there's so much stuff that one trainer of Seb Chaigneau (North Face) wrote on a blog that you almost need a wheelbarrow to carry all the stuff. Would be nice for KJ to show the content of his bag at the end of this year event.

        1. Anonymous

          thanks Bryon for the info, the coverage, and the chance to have a civil debate on an important subject (trail and environment)

          1. Roger Soto

            Sure, his and all others also! I think the shirtless guys don't have many places to carry all they gear either… ;-)

            Anyways, I agree the mandatory gear is too much, so we can discuss if we agree with the rules, but here we we're discussing about agreeing to some estalbished rules.

            If you want my personal opinion, I'd like a mix of EEUU-EU rules: no pacers, no crews, no cutting swithcbaks if there's path (sometimes, especially in rocky pics, there's no path, then you choose!) and no mand gear (everyone should care for his one). Obviously that is for prof runners, for midlle-packers I see the need to establish some mandatory gear for security reasons, and I don´t see any harm on having my girlfriend carrying some extra clothes for me in case I need them! hehehe

    1. Anonymous

      Is any sports fan who voices a strong opinion? I mean, why not root for both teams during the superbowl? A bad call by a ref? well, it didn't affect me so why bother having an opinion on it… If people weren't allowed to have an opinion, criticize decisions, and/or just be plain critical of a sport, ESPN and major league sports wouldn't exist. It's just the way it is.

  7. pat

    People mentioned that cutting switchbacks is damaging to the mountainside, but…what are switchbacks other than an unnecessarily weaving route that makes more marks in the landscape rather than less? I'm not saying this to make an argument, I'm just asking. What is the purpose of switchbacks in trail design? Is it to preserve the mountainside or is it to make the grade easier to hike up or down?

    1. Guest

      I think the idea is to provide access to beautiful mountains, but limit the damage to a single, narrow path instead of allowing just about every spot of a mountain to get potentially trampled.

  8. Kevin

    The website does not say that he couldn't ride a
    motorcycle either. Some things should understood. I have tremendous respect for KJ but when he was cautioned against cutting switchbacks and continued he should've been DQ'd. This has nothing to do with US versus Euro! Karl made the right decision.

  9. Ron

    Killian should have been politely DQ'ed but that would never happen because he is too revered here in the US, they would be afraid of offending him, and they'd risk future KJ appearances. Also in jeopardy would be the chance to host a future US race in the Skyrunner series. Even I know, as an amateur hack middle-of-the-packer that you can't cut switchbacks. Oh, and I do know that you *can* cut them in Euro races. If I'm aware of the differences, as a poor slob who struggles to hit race cut-off times, KJ's stateside Solomon handlers (Adam Chase where are you?) could have easily take five minutes to review the domestic trailing running rules with him.

    Karl took the soccer-Mom approach ("everyone gets a ribbon") approach but the fairer thing to do here would have been a simple no-hard-feelings DQ. Set a hard precedent otherwise we're doomed to repeat controversies like this.

  10. Danni

    The more places people walk the more vegetation is disturbed/destroyed and the more erosion occurs. Trails minimize where this occurs. A bunch of people going off trail destroys the hillside.

  11. chad

    This is Skyrace. Skyracing is generally done on open courses. So no it is not a given unless the rules say so.

    I still think that Karl made the right decision.

  12. JimS

    i was coming up the trail when Killian cut one switchback. The trail was very narrow in that section, and there were probably a half dozen of us slow folks coming up th trail between the point where he left the trail and came back onto it. i'm guessing around 100 vertical feet of steep dirt. The trail was narrow enough that It would have been impossible for him to pass the people coming up the trail without leaving the trail and i doubt that all of us on the trail would have been able to get out of the way quickly enough. He was flying. Don't know how much he cut otherwise or what the reasons were, but as far as I'm concerneddropping off the trail and avoiding possible collisions in that section was the right choice.

    Also, as far as possible damage to the vegetation, etc., let's not forget the 2 sections that were off trail where the course was more or less straight up the hill, on NO trail, just made up with a line of flags, and these were sections that everyone used, not just one runner. Personally, I thought those parts of the course were great, but they certainly allowed more destruction than what would have been caused by a few elite runners off trail.

  13. Jared Friesen

    Mount Marathon up here in Alaska has no defined course past the 1/4 mile on the road. The actual climb up the mountain is simply the way the runner chooses, as long as the turn around at the same spot at the top. However, this is rare and most races have defined trails. American's have been told that cutting switchbacks and taking otherwise other shortcuts is bad for the environment, however beyond that, in an organized race with a course then runners need to stay on the course at all times, plane and simple.

  14. EdP

    What a load of crap. We're to believe that one of the premier runners in the world doesn't know that you're not supposed to cut swithchbacks. I think it's obvious he'd have won regardles, but please give me a break. KJ is hands down one of the most amazing athletes on the planet but all you KJ apologists are a bit pathetic, sorry. You either play by the rules or you don't. I was also pretty surprised at the amount of anti TK talk being thrown around on this web-cast. It's sad that with such a quickly growing sport creating such an exciting buzz we are seeing so many "trolls" and posers posting "as if" they've done anything other than finish. Just because we toe the line with the best doesn't give any of us the right to be so critical when we're hours and hours behind them. This was a great event, with an awesome field, the best man won, end of story.

    1. art

      probably the most criticized person in the USA is the president.

      if we can't criticize our betters what else is there to live for?

  15. Wyatt Hornsby

    The best way to protect a mountain (especially in the summer when there's no snow protecting the tundra) is to have a designated route up to the summit. Switchbacks usually are part of the route. You don't want hikers and runners going wherever they please or else you risk damage to tundra. This isn't a problem really back East, where you have lower mountains. But out West damage to tundra is a problem, because it takes years, even decades, for damaged tundra to come back. To just run or hike wherever you please really shows very little care for a mountain. You stick to the route. Fortunately, many mountains out West have different routes for people of all abilities.

    1. Jake

      Actually, switchbacks, if designed right (proper grading) should allow water to flow off of them without rutting out the trail.

    2. Mt.Mutt

      Funny thing is though,now that euro style and FKT attempts for direct line peak bagging,and long ridge scrambling are becoming more popular here,more and more runners are foregoing trails and taking more direct routes up and down mts.

  16. Jared Friesen

    Karl did the right thing. If Killian, and/or other runners, start cutting switch backs at will then trails are instantly destroyed, permits not granted, trail runner disappears.

  17. the runner

    I'm with snurfer, and I didn't think this was a Major League sport. I guess it's adios to the grassroots that keeps trail running real.

  18. Speedgoatkarl

    Because in Skyrunning, it is allowed to cut switchbacks, and that's how they do things, I did not disqualify KJ for cutting them, it's how the Skyracing people are allowed to race.

    I don't allow that here, but let it slide this year, because in my course rules section, it does not say cutting switchbacks is not allowed, (it was the first thing I checked before Killian even finished) It is assumed here in the US that it is not allowed, in Europe, that's not so. If I had that in my rules I would have DQ'd him totally,but it wasn't, so I let him run to the finish, then make a decision. When I heard he was told he's not supposed to cut switchbacks, around mile 20, he continued to do so on his final descent. He knew, he cheated, therefore, he can't win the money in my race, but can still take points for the Skyrunning World series, cuz' in their rules, he didn't cheat.

    It was treated like two seperate races. Follow my course, you win the cash, run for points in a world series and can win the series.

    All in all, it was a very hard decision to make, my race was flawless this year in terms of efficiency and control. Then I had to deal with this, it kinda ruined my day. :-) -Karl

    We could break a record with comments…..Now go run!

    1. emmanuel

      Hi all,

      I'm french, and I like to follow races in other countries, it is a way to discover different landscapes, spirits, … and work my english ! So big thanks to IRunFar.

      Then should Kilian be disqualified or not ? my feelings are mixed, the situation and rules were so confused… First, I agree with people saying runners have to stay on the lane when it exists, it seems natural for me and I would like this to be the rule for any races, even in sky running series.

      I'm not shocked with Kilian being disqualified, but I find the word "Cheater" about him a bit strong. In my opinion, and I hope it is true, Kilian was more an ignorant than a cheater. During the race, did he really understand the situation and the critisms about the cut ? I imagine myself at his place, I can read and write english quite well I hope, but listening and really understanding english native speaking people, besides running (and fast !), is another matter ! I am not sure I could, especially if complicated words like "switchback" and "snowbird" were used (I have yet to understand what snowbird really is, a plant or an animal ?). So I'm doubtful Kilian could.

      1. chad

        Cheater does seem like a strong word especially since when I race I can never make out what people on the sideline are yelling and I'm a native English speaker.

        1. Speedgoatkarl

          Cheater may be a little harsh. Fair enough, I could have used a differnt word, but it ultimately comes down to him knowing he was not supposed to cut switchbacks, and was told during the race from a "source". I will not reveal the name. If he stopped doing it after that, my decision may have been different.

          1. Roger Soto

            You are assuming he heard it and you are assuming he understood it. You are also giving this "source" complete confidence, something you might do but others may not… (I don't have any clue who the source is).

            Also, I think the word cheater is not just harsh, it plain inappropiate to apply to someone who has SHOWN and PROOF many times how much of a straightforward and honest person he is. And, honestly, I think he has also proved he doesn't need to cheat at all to win anyone in any type of race, and even in different sports.

            That said, I personally think all this was just a huge misunderstanding and there were no bad intentions on any side. Just be carefull with the wording, as someone may also use the words "jealousy" and "revenge" from the other side of the discussion (and don't get me wrong, those would be as inapprotiate as the cheating one)

            1. Roger Soto

              Re-reading my comment maybe it was a bit harsh also, it's just that I see in some comments (not in yours Karl) a bit of unrevelled anger towards Kilian that I can't understand, specially seeing the respect and love he has shown towards ultrarunning in general, and in particular to the US ultrarunning scene.

              Anyway, let's leave this.

              Karl, you are a heck of a runner and RD, keep it up! And hopefully we'll see another Human Express endeavour which I did really enjoy!

              And Bryon and iRunFar's team, as always, amazing coverage and many thanks for your effort!

          2. Jordi

            hehe just as emmanuel says, i bet he didn't understand that person, otherwise he would have stopped cutting those things called "switchbacks"… It's actually funny to picture kilian thinking 'what did this man mean?… not allowed what? switch-what? what was exactly the meaning of 'allowed' anyway… hahah

    2. Anom

      …"When I heard he was told he’s not supposed to cut switchbacks, around mile 20, he continued to do so on his final descent…" BUT WHO TOLD IT!!! So, someone told you something that it is supposed to be part of the unwritten rules and you EXPECT runners to trust!!!!

      1. Bryon Powell

        I don't think the person needs to be named. I know who told Kilian and it's someone he should trust to a very high degree. It was not a random person or even a random volunteer on the course.

        1. Justin

          If it aint writen it aint so.

          If it was not in the rules it was Karl's fault.

          Sorry, rules cannot be told for the first time and then enforced during a race.

          I don't care if it was Karl himself who told Kilian during the race.

          1. Justin

            And I will add that it was NOT in the rules.

            This was Karl's oversight and he has had to learn a hard lesson. But I'm sure the lesson has been learned.

          2. Bryon Powell

            I disagree that if it's not written, it ain't so. For the past millenia (at least), common law has supplemented civil code throughout the countries that adhere to an English legal system. Under that system, a standard need not be published as a law or posted publicly to have the full force of the law. There are countless other contexts in which the same principle applies. Indeed, "laws" certainly predate the written word as mores and customs. In the US, it is our custom and ethic not to cut switchbacks in races. This difference between American and continental European trail customs is very well know in the US and, given previous controversy on big stages regarding the issue of switchback cutting by Europeans in American races, I suspect that the relevant people would at least be aware of the issue. Regardless of awareness, ignorance of the law (written or not) is no defense.

            Yes, Karl now knows that it would have been better for everyone had he explicitly published the rule on his website, but that doesn't mean the rule did not exist before the race.

            1. Justin

              But that same arguement could be used in the opposite way. Because it was a Skyrace and there was no writen rule saying that cutting was not allowed one could reasonably assume that it was.

  19. Speedy

    I have photos of the Baldy cut and Rickey staying on course. Not sure about any of the others. Great run by both and the others regardless.

    1. Dave Klein

      I checked the flyover course map and it looks like the course follows the traditional ridgeline up baldy, however the event course was clearly marked to the west don't know where Kilian went. We straightlined the screeslope below the road to Prove last year when it was on snow, up and down, but that was the marked course I think.

      Thats to bad for Kilian and we probably need to clarify things in the US. It's on the runner to know the customs/rules of the land, we don't cut trails in the US for environmental reasons I'm surprised that is not true in Europe. That being said Carl's judgment seems more than fair.

      Back when they ran the Rowdy Run to the top of Hidden Peak it was stated 'first to the top wins' with an emphasis on Rowdy, three of us decided to take 'em up on that. We asked at the the starting line "if it was really 'first to the top wins' and were told yes. I was first up with the fasted time to the top and what would have been a course record – except it wasn't because it did not count. We cut the course and a lot of distance. That was fair.

  20. Roger

    Can't believe the amount of fanboying and hating going on around this outcome. Even on the other side of the world, this has been a fairly hot topic on forums/Facebook/etc.

    Karl did a great job bringing together a really exciting field where a fast race was guaranteed and there was no certain prediction of the final 5. In itself that's an achievement when so often even major ultras with fields of 400 have relatively predictable podiums. And it was a racer's race – tough course, fast front end, sweet purse.

    Course improvisation and taking fastest lines is also exciting, so what do you do? I've never heard any Race Director relish the prospect of cutting or penalising a runner, even when it's as clear a case as a runner missing the cutoffs on course.

    It would have been a sad compromise both to reach and to hear for Karl and Kilian respectively, but it's not sad for the sport that trail ultra is having to make some big decisions akin to working through growing pains.

    It looked like a great event, and surely Anton Krupicka's return to competitive form after a challenging 18 months is the most exciting headline in all of this.

  21. Davide

    I did the check in at UTMB next to Kilian: he had each single item requested from race rules. Same goes for Geoff Roes, which had an even smaller pack probably. I witnessed firsthand they had EVERYTHING.

    Great race and terrific performances, by the way.

      1. Davide

        Yup, but I keep hearing how Kilian (and the rest of the elite) could have stocked everything in such a small pack: it is possible, actually, expecially if you're crewed.

        But you're right, anybody could have discarded something once on the way: it is just an assumption but it's definitely possible.

  22. Phillip Lowry

    Majo, la ley es la ley, y por tu conducto ya nos escrudina aun mas el gobierno federal. Debes comunicarselo al mundo y al gobierno federal y estatal por dejar tu "victoria" y hacerte "DQ". Eso seria un acto de valor y de caballero, y seria un sacrificio por el deporte. Hay otras leyes que aplican y tienes la obligacion de cononcerlas. La ignorancia no se minima la culpabilidad, pero bueno, parece que en esta caso la ignorancia no esta. Por la pinta se parece.

  23. Phillip Lowry

    Let's just shut down ultrarunning on public land. That's what this thread is demonstrating. The defenders of Kilian are in DENIAL.

    THERE IS NO DEBATE. It was illegal. I am so pissed off with where some of you are going with this that I am starting to see why there are haters of our sport in the federal government. Those of you defending Kilian are no better than the SUVers who drive across meadows. Yup. "It's public land, I can do what I want!"

    Keep it up. You'll shut us down.

    But who is "us" anyway? If people give any more credence to this thread than I might as well spare us a slow death caused by the transformation of the sport into a lawless free-for-all. I'll just call my fellow federal government attorney who is the forest service solicitor and he can push this down to the district rangers, and soon, most western ultras, including the beloved Western States, will be history.

    Holy. Freak.

    1. chad

      You have to cut someone a little slack if they don't know it is illegal. Now he knows and I'm sure he will never make the same mistake again. Lesson learned on Kilian's end and I'm sure Karl will make things clear on his end so this never happens again.

      1. Phillip Lowry

        Chad, I have been trying cases a long time. I don't find that argument credible. Not after what happened on Pike's. I already posted to Kilian, in Castellano (I lived in Spain for two years) that the proper thing to do would be to forfeit. This would go a long way to help forest officials who are defending us from their more radical colleagues. To understand my frustration, right now I am an Army lawyer in Afghanistan. My colleagues work for months and years to build trust, and then some Joe burns a Koran. Poof. Literally. All that work–shot.

        1. Justin

          Why should we assume Kilian had any knowledge of what happend at Pikes? That seems like a huge stretch. As a lawyer you know that such things need to be specified in the rules. They were not. Karl has admitted that. With no such rule specified it seems reasonable to Kilian to assume that the general Skyrunning rules would apply.

          BTW – Thank you so much for your service. I can't imagine what it must be like to be doing what you are doing. You have my gratitude and my respect. My best wished for a safe return.

    2. guest

      I agree except it seems the fault is Karl's for not putting it more clearly in the written race rules nor emphasizing it at pre-race meetings. He pretty much admits this allowed for the possibility that KJ was following other Skyrace rules and thus made him have to think 2x about a full out DQ. I do not sense anyone here suggesting that it a good thing to allow or overlook cutting switbacks as a general policy in races or beyond. Next year will be very different I am sure and other RD's can learn from this as well.

  24. Anom

    Hey SpeedGoat organizers, you are crappy, more runners did the switchbacks, Rickey included… Kilian vente para Europa…

  25. Yeti

    I can accept that Killian did not understand the rules and an honest mistake is worth forgiving. BUT…Karl stated Killian was seen cutting switchbacks and told to stop but continued to do so later on in the race. That's not confusion anymore, that's flat out cheating. He was knowingly breaking the rules after he was warned. In my opinion, a DQ and an explanation from Killian why he continued to cut switchbacks AFTER he was told to stop are certainly in order.

    1. Anom

      No, the rules must be written not told during the race in the middle of the downhill… remember, Kilian is the man who said "More kilometers, more fun" and these guys said that he did switchbacks like a poor runner…

      1. Justin

        Agreed. Karl cannot rely of some volunteer or anyone else yelling out NEW rules when the race is underway. No reason Kilian or anyone else should believe them or understand what they are saying.

        I say NEW because they were not included in the official races rules.

        Karl's fault, period.

  26. MtUnpaved

    Here's my 2 cents;

    * It was an excellent and exciting race to follow on IRunfar, Thanks Bryon & Crew.

    * It was disheartening to see the bashing going on about some of the runners during the race. We as a group should be better than that.

    * Karl had to make a very hard decision but based on what he has said and what I have read it seems that he tried to be fair with all parties involved.

    It's always easier to cast judgement when your NOT the one forced to make the hard decisions.

  27. Phillip Lowry

    Ja, gehst du dort. Wir, die Amerikaner, sind zu unhoflich und nie lernen die Sprache von Europa. Und, leider, wir nie euer Rechte lernen. Y eso, mis majos europeos, es la verdad. Bien sur, n'est pas? Io credo che si. Isso e uma vergonca, e verdade.

    1. Jordi

      Phillip, it wasn't 'stop' the word he didn't understand, was it? or are you suggesting that that mysterious but trustful person told him to actually stop?. That would shed light on things indeed ;)

  28. Chris

    Let's not talk about the time saved when cutting switchbacks, but the damage that does to our natural environment. I hate to see anyone cutting trails anywhere. It causes erosion and the hard work our volunteers put into trail building is taken out. As runners we need to be ambassadors to trail use. Please do NOT cut any trails to get there faster.

  29. David T

    "Was allowed" I mean. Depending on assumed knowledge is a dangerous thing as this case highlights. Especially true as races become more international. You just cannot assume that everyone has the same knowledge when you are cross international boundaries.

  30. David T

    Sorry, Justin. I meant "you mean" and I don't mean to assume that I know what you are talking about but it just seemed like you did not finish your thought. It seemed like it was making some sense and I agree with it. Although I do get Bryon's point (he kind of knows what he it talking about being an attorney and all)

  31. JimS

    "Let's just shut down ultrarunning on public land…" what the heck??? I'm sure you're familiar with the area, no doubt more than I am. You do realize it's a ski area with big towers and that the runners pass by massive new concrete foundations and big holes obviously dug by big machines, don't you? Let's keep a little perspective here. Tis isn't an undisturbed wilderness area.

    1. Phillip Lowry

      This is not a wilderness debate. Our worst resource degradation caused by trail cutting occurs in the urban interface, not wilderness. It is a huge problem for the FS. For them this whole thing is about the same as poaching a moose and the guide telling the fish cop, "Hey, he didn't know the law." It really pisses the government off. So, their reaction is, "Well, we have to put up with the ski resorts, but we certainly aren't going to allow foot races with all the crap they pull." BTW–much of the Speedgoat traverses public land, and many Utah resorts lease from the FS. Please don't morph the facts to fit an ethos not shared by those in power.

      1. JimS

        "…about the same as poaching a moose…" Isn't this another bit of an exaggeration? I'm not making this a "wilderness debate, just trying to keep some sort f realistic perspective here.

        "please don't morph the facts…" and what is equating the FS attitude toward poaching wildife with cutting a switchback? is this really true? You know it's not.

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