Comments on: A Plea to the Western States Board for Transparency and Accountability http://www.irunfar.com/2009/01/accountability-and-transparency-for.html Mud, Mountains, Miles and More Wed, 17 Mar 2010 22:47:37 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Anonymous http://www.irunfar.com/2009/01/accountability-and-transparency-for.html/comment-page-1#comment-2002 Anonymous Fri, 06 Mar 2009 21:01:00 +0000 http://irunfar.com/a-plea-to-the-western-states-board-for-transparency-and-accountability.php#comment-2002 I believe that in many states there exist "sunshine" laws that require non-profits and other organizations to make their business transparent except in areas of privacy issues. Hopefully there can be some transparency without having to resort to lawsuit, etc. Seems that the race is dependent on runners - not the other way round and thus should have no issue with being transparent. I believe that in many states there exist “sunshine” laws that require non-profits and other organizations to make their business transparent except in areas of privacy issues. Hopefully there can be some transparency without having to resort to lawsuit, etc. Seems that the race is dependent on runners – not the other way round and thus should have no issue with being transparent.

]]> By: Bryon Powell http://www.irunfar.com/2009/01/accountability-and-transparency-for.html/comment-page-1#comment-2001 Bryon Powell Sat, 07 Feb 2009 23:40:00 +0000 http://irunfar.com/a-plea-to-the-western-states-board-for-transparency-and-accountability.php#comment-2001 Alright, it's long overdue, but here's my reply to Lord Balls (b.k.a., Craig Thornley).<br/><br/>Opening paragraph: I agree that it wouldn't hurt for many race directors to consider the points I raise; however, many of the points are aimed particularly at major races that have a board. I would not expect that I would be transparent if I started a local 50k.<br/><br/>1. Craig, see point my comment in the opening paragraph. I completely understand RDs letting a limited number of folks in via a separate VIP entrance. I, too, would do this. I think what irks people is that the WSER has a complex and public set of rules... that include a list of special entry considerations... and there are instances when folks get in via considerations that aren't on this list. They could just as easily add another ... "and we'll let a very limited number of folks in to the WSER (or they could name a number) in completely at our discretion.<br/><br/>3. I think every RD should look at their organizational vision and do so periodically. Self-assessment, goal determination, and planning are usually crucial to any individual's or group' success. Even an aspiring RD should think long and hard about what type of event they want their event to be not just in the first year but in the 5 year and beyond. :-)<br/><br/>4. I REALLY hate going into this one cause I don't want to step on any toes... because I am not aware of there being any problematic conflicts of interest at the moment. That said, I'll restate my point another way: It would be in the race's best interest if the board were to create a rule that bar any Board member from making or advising regarding a decision that involves a company, when the individual has a financial relationship, the reasonably likelihood of a financial relationship, or other significant tie to the company or its competitors. I'll happily explain this in greater to the Board if they want, but that's all I have to say about the matter publicly.<br/><br/>7. I love the synchroblog project and can't wait for the next one!<br/><br/>-Bryon Alright, it’s long overdue, but here’s my reply to Lord Balls (b.k.a., Craig Thornley).

Opening paragraph: I agree that it wouldn’t hurt for many race directors to consider the points I raise; however, many of the points are aimed particularly at major races that have a board. I would not expect that I would be transparent if I started a local 50k.

1. Craig, see point my comment in the opening paragraph. I completely understand RDs letting a limited number of folks in via a separate VIP entrance. I, too, would do this. I think what irks people is that the WSER has a complex and public set of rules… that include a list of special entry considerations… and there are instances when folks get in via considerations that aren’t on this list. They could just as easily add another … “and we’ll let a very limited number of folks in to the WSER (or they could name a number) in completely at our discretion.

3. I think every RD should look at their organizational vision and do so periodically. Self-assessment, goal determination, and planning are usually crucial to any individual’s or group’ success. Even an aspiring RD should think long and hard about what type of event they want their event to be not just in the first year but in the 5 year and beyond. :-)

4. I REALLY hate going into this one cause I don’t want to step on any toes… because I am not aware of there being any problematic conflicts of interest at the moment. That said, I’ll restate my point another way: It would be in the race’s best interest if the board were to create a rule that bar any Board member from making or advising regarding a decision that involves a company, when the individual has a financial relationship, the reasonably likelihood of a financial relationship, or other significant tie to the company or its competitors. I’ll happily explain this in greater to the Board if they want, but that’s all I have to say about the matter publicly.

7. I love the synchroblog project and can’t wait for the next one!

-Bryon

]]> By: Trail Goat http://www.irunfar.com/2009/01/accountability-and-transparency-for.html/comment-page-1#comment-2000 Trail Goat Wed, 21 Jan 2009 05:17:00 +0000 http://irunfar.com/a-plea-to-the-western-states-board-for-transparency-and-accountability.php#comment-2000 Craig, I regret that I'll have to put off responding to your comment for the time being. It is not being ignored; rather, it is so important that I need more time to think about it and respond thoughtfully and articulately.<br/><br/>Thanks, Meredith. I hope you do get to run WS someday... it's an awesome experience. :-)<br/><br/>Annette,<br/>Thanks for taking the time to write. I couldn't agree with you more about the job the Board has done and how thankful I am for providing me with the experiences I had in '04, '05, and 06' and hope to have many more times in the future. <br/><br/>As for disclosing financial info, I agree that it's tricky. I wouldn't expect WS to give a super-detailed breakdown, but more of a broad-stroked account of major expense categories and donations. I would not expect them to disclose sponsorship income and the like. <br/><br/>I would not expect smaller races, such as your own to disclose any financial data at the moment. I know if I were to start a race (and I hope to do so!), I wouldn't want to go spreading around the financial details on the web. I think WS is a different beast entirely... it has a Board after all!<br/><br/>Anonymous, I do hope my post sparks some discussion among the WS Board and glad it has among the readers here. I'm not even sure what vision I think WS should have (though I lean towards inclusive), just that I think it should have one. Craig, I regret that I’ll have to put off responding to your comment for the time being. It is not being ignored; rather, it is so important that I need more time to think about it and respond thoughtfully and articulately.

Thanks, Meredith. I hope you do get to run WS someday… it’s an awesome experience. :-)

Annette,
Thanks for taking the time to write. I couldn’t agree with you more about the job the Board has done and how thankful I am for providing me with the experiences I had in ‘04, ‘05, and 06′ and hope to have many more times in the future.

As for disclosing financial info, I agree that it’s tricky. I wouldn’t expect WS to give a super-detailed breakdown, but more of a broad-stroked account of major expense categories and donations. I would not expect them to disclose sponsorship income and the like.

I would not expect smaller races, such as your own to disclose any financial data at the moment. I know if I were to start a race (and I hope to do so!), I wouldn’t want to go spreading around the financial details on the web. I think WS is a different beast entirely… it has a Board after all!

Anonymous, I do hope my post sparks some discussion among the WS Board and glad it has among the readers here. I’m not even sure what vision I think WS should have (though I lean towards inclusive), just that I think it should have one.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.irunfar.com/2009/01/accountability-and-transparency-for.html/comment-page-1#comment-1999 Anonymous Mon, 19 Jan 2009 06:00:00 +0000 http://irunfar.com/a-plea-to-the-western-states-board-for-transparency-and-accountability.php#comment-1999 Thanks for initiating this discussion. On the core issue of what kind of race WS is to be, I'm firmly in the camp that belives that this is Boston of ultra running and therefore qualification standards should be raised and more performance based entries provided. I'm thinking more along the lines of the Hawaii Ironman. <br/><br/>The Montrail Cup entries are a great start, but how about adding a couple of masters entries. Thanks for initiating this discussion. On the core issue of what kind of race WS is to be, I’m firmly in the camp that belives that this is Boston of ultra running and therefore qualification standards should be raised and more performance based entries provided. I’m thinking more along the lines of the Hawaii Ironman.

The Montrail Cup entries are a great start, but how about adding a couple of masters entries.

]]> By: annette bednosky http://www.irunfar.com/2009/01/accountability-and-transparency-for.html/comment-page-1#comment-1998 annette bednosky Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:55:00 +0000 http://irunfar.com/a-plea-to-the-western-states-board-for-transparency-and-accountability.php#comment-1998 Byron,<br/>I appreciate your courage in being direct with questions that many of us have wondered about! I look forward to following any responses. As for me, I have wondered many of those same things...yet also know from my limited RD experience that organizing a race is $$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!<br/><br/>So I have gone forth with trust in my wonderings...I greatly respect the WS 100 Board and organizers,and am greatful for all the experiences they have helped me have, and at the same time, think being able to articulate answers to your provocative questions is a reasonable request of any non profit...yet at the same time, some privacy on the part of the non profit is necessary for functional and political reasons... Byron,
I appreciate your courage in being direct with questions that many of us have wondered about! I look forward to following any responses. As for me, I have wondered many of those same things…yet also know from my limited RD experience that organizing a race is $$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!

So I have gone forth with trust in my wonderings…I greatly respect the WS 100 Board and organizers,and am greatful for all the experiences they have helped me have, and at the same time, think being able to articulate answers to your provocative questions is a reasonable request of any non profit…yet at the same time, some privacy on the part of the non profit is necessary for functional and political reasons…

]]> By: Meredith http://www.irunfar.com/2009/01/accountability-and-transparency-for.html/comment-page-1#comment-1997 Meredith Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:45:00 +0000 http://irunfar.com/a-plea-to-the-western-states-board-for-transparency-and-accountability.php#comment-1997 This was a great read. I am really impressed by the thought and effort you put in to this and I hope you get some sort of response from the board of WS. <br/><br/>I really do not care how people gain entry, but it would be nice to know how people gain entry. How many of the runners that toe the line were lottery and how many were not? When a race has such low odds of getting selected in their lottery, one cannot wonder how else can you gain entry and how does every one there gain entry? <br/><br/>Unfortunately I was unable to attend WS this past year (2008) due to it's cancellation and will be unable to accept my spot in 2009 due to pregnancy! LOL. I cannot wait around my whole life for one race ;) Who knows if i will ever get the chance to run WS. That makes me a little sad as the chances of running the race as a common person dwindle drastically year by year. This was a great read. I am really impressed by the thought and effort you put in to this and I hope you get some sort of response from the board of WS.

I really do not care how people gain entry, but it would be nice to know how people gain entry. How many of the runners that toe the line were lottery and how many were not? When a race has such low odds of getting selected in their lottery, one cannot wonder how else can you gain entry and how does every one there gain entry?

Unfortunately I was unable to attend WS this past year (2008) due to it’s cancellation and will be unable to accept my spot in 2009 due to pregnancy! LOL. I cannot wait around my whole life for one race ;) Who knows if i will ever get the chance to run WS. That makes me a little sad as the chances of running the race as a common person dwindle drastically year by year.

]]> By: Craig Thornley http://www.irunfar.com/2009/01/accountability-and-transparency-for.html/comment-page-1#comment-1996 Craig Thornley Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:17:00 +0000 http://irunfar.com/a-plea-to-the-western-states-board-for-transparency-and-accountability.php#comment-1996 Bryon,<br/><br/>Very provocative post. It raises questions that all races might want to pay attention to. I'll address a few of your points.<br/><br/>1. Race Entry. Lots of races allow people in through connections. Unfortunately for WS, everybody is watching like hawks. We might be able to be more transparent, but I tend to agree with Zen Clown in that it might not be what we really want in the end. If one of my longtime volunteers, or a good friend, or a significant contributor to the community wants in a full Where's Waldo, I am going to let them in and I'm not sure I want to or have to reveal this. I'm still having to think on this one.<br/><br/>3. Organizational Vision. With the astronomical growth of our sport the last few years, lots of races are experiencing growing pains. The sport is not the same as it was, say 5 years ago (before our friend with glistening calves wrote his book). As an example, the Oregon Trail Series used to have only one of seven races fill. Now all our races fill and we've had to deal with lots of new issues. Our series and races could benefit from some "vision discussions."<br/><br/>4. Conflicts of Interest. I don't understand what this is about. Is this, for example, to reveal if a board member is sponsored by Montrail? Can you explain more please?<br/><br/>7. Synchroblog. This was a fun first one. Thanks for joining. Wasn't sure how it would fly. In the interest of transparency we should reveal that we didn't read each others' posts until they were posted (well, except for AJW who must also tell his kids what they're getting for Christmas two days before Christmas) so it was a surprise to each of us. We just agreed on a general topic, shared the permalink and title the day before, set the publishing time so they were synchronized, and then woke up to see what happened. It was fun.<br/><br/>Looking forward to the next one. Bryon,

Very provocative post. It raises questions that all races might want to pay attention to. I’ll address a few of your points.

1. Race Entry. Lots of races allow people in through connections. Unfortunately for WS, everybody is watching like hawks. We might be able to be more transparent, but I tend to agree with Zen Clown in that it might not be what we really want in the end. If one of my longtime volunteers, or a good friend, or a significant contributor to the community wants in a full Where’s Waldo, I am going to let them in and I’m not sure I want to or have to reveal this. I’m still having to think on this one.

3. Organizational Vision. With the astronomical growth of our sport the last few years, lots of races are experiencing growing pains. The sport is not the same as it was, say 5 years ago (before our friend with glistening calves wrote his book). As an example, the Oregon Trail Series used to have only one of seven races fill. Now all our races fill and we’ve had to deal with lots of new issues. Our series and races could benefit from some “vision discussions.”

4. Conflicts of Interest. I don’t understand what this is about. Is this, for example, to reveal if a board member is sponsored by Montrail? Can you explain more please?

7. Synchroblog. This was a fun first one. Thanks for joining. Wasn’t sure how it would fly. In the interest of transparency we should reveal that we didn’t read each others’ posts until they were posted (well, except for AJW who must also tell his kids what they’re getting for Christmas two days before Christmas) so it was a surprise to each of us. We just agreed on a general topic, shared the permalink and title the day before, set the publishing time so they were synchronized, and then woke up to see what happened. It was fun.

Looking forward to the next one.

]]> By: Trail Goat http://www.irunfar.com/2009/01/accountability-and-transparency-for.html/comment-page-1#comment-1995 Trail Goat Fri, 16 Jan 2009 05:25:00 +0000 http://irunfar.com/a-plea-to-the-western-states-board-for-transparency-and-accountability.php#comment-1995 Loomdog,<br/>Thanks for sharing your thoughts.<br/><br/>Grae,<br/>I appreciate the nice words. I try my best. I appreciate your extra tid bits of information even more. <br/><br/>Paul C,<br/>Glad you agree with the suggestion about stating how folks get in to the race. Best of luck with your oversee-entry message to the Board. Personally, I called for the removal of the 25 foreign-entry slots back before the 2007 lotto. I've never seen an international flavor at the race. In fact, the only foreigners I've met during the race are Simon and Topher, both of whom have spent enough time in the States that I wouldn't necessarily consider them foreign even if their current residences are outside of the United States. (That's no gripe on them, just sharing what I've seen or haven't seen.) Loomdog,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Grae,
I appreciate the nice words. I try my best. I appreciate your extra tid bits of information even more.

Paul C,
Glad you agree with the suggestion about stating how folks get in to the race. Best of luck with your oversee-entry message to the Board. Personally, I called for the removal of the 25 foreign-entry slots back before the 2007 lotto. I’ve never seen an international flavor at the race. In fact, the only foreigners I’ve met during the race are Simon and Topher, both of whom have spent enough time in the States that I wouldn’t necessarily consider them foreign even if their current residences are outside of the United States. (That’s no gripe on them, just sharing what I’ve seen or haven’t seen.)

]]> By: Trail Goat http://www.irunfar.com/2009/01/accountability-and-transparency-for.html/comment-page-1#comment-1994 Trail Goat Fri, 16 Jan 2009 05:13:00 +0000 http://irunfar.com/a-plea-to-the-western-states-board-for-transparency-and-accountability.php#comment-1994 Jasper,<br/>I'm glad you agree with most of my sentiments re race entry disclose. My problem sn't so much with WHO gets in, but not knowing how they get in.<br/><br/>Olga,<br/>I'm so happy that someone recognized that I wasn't in "bitching mode" when making my suggestions. :-) I love the race and make these suggestions more so I don't find myself wanting to defend the race so often, when the Board could easily reduce the amount of distracting chatter. There's no particular reason we made this post now other than Craig wanted to start synchroblogging re WS and this was the topic he chose for the first set of posts.<br/><br/>Mike A,<br/>With all that I said, I'll be at States pacing this year, hope to get in for next year, and am already an entrant in the 2011 race.<br/><br/>Zen clown,<br/>Thanks for the kind words. If you are right, then ignorance is bliss. Jasper,
I’m glad you agree with most of my sentiments re race entry disclose. My problem sn’t so much with WHO gets in, but not knowing how they get in.

Olga,
I’m so happy that someone recognized that I wasn’t in “bitching mode” when making my suggestions. :-) I love the race and make these suggestions more so I don’t find myself wanting to defend the race so often, when the Board could easily reduce the amount of distracting chatter. There’s no particular reason we made this post now other than Craig wanted to start synchroblogging re WS and this was the topic he chose for the first set of posts.

Mike A,
With all that I said, I’ll be at States pacing this year, hope to get in for next year, and am already an entrant in the 2011 race.

Zen clown,
Thanks for the kind words. If you are right, then ignorance is bliss.

]]> By: Paul Charteris http://www.irunfar.com/2009/01/accountability-and-transparency-for.html/comment-page-1#comment-1993 Paul Charteris Fri, 16 Jan 2009 01:13:00 +0000 http://irunfar.com/a-plea-to-the-western-states-board-for-transparency-and-accountability.php#comment-1993 I agree with the transparency issue. Aside from the fact that its been exciting these last couple of months to see new elite runners added to the list - it's also been confusing. I think that stating ho each entrant got into the race would be certainly help clarify things. Give Lon Freeman the job- he loves that sort of thing :-) <br/><br/>No-one has grumbled (yet) about all 25 overseas runner spots being dropped. I assume everyone is OK with it. I agree, it was a terrible system how the overseas runners got in but I do not like seeing a large international favor removed from the race overnight. I will propose an alternative system and write an open letter to the Board. <br/><br/>Paul Charteris. <br/>Entrant 2008-2009. Pacer 2006, 2007<br/>(Entered via Cal1 Aid Station Volunteer Slot - Golden Valley Harriers Running Club) I agree with the transparency issue. Aside from the fact that its been exciting these last couple of months to see new elite runners added to the list – it’s also been confusing. I think that stating ho each entrant got into the race would be certainly help clarify things. Give Lon Freeman the job- he loves that sort of thing :-)

No-one has grumbled (yet) about all 25 overseas runner spots being dropped. I assume everyone is OK with it. I agree, it was a terrible system how the overseas runners got in but I do not like seeing a large international favor removed from the race overnight. I will propose an alternative system and write an open letter to the Board.

Paul Charteris.
Entrant 2008-2009. Pacer 2006, 2007
(Entered via Cal1 Aid Station Volunteer Slot – Golden Valley Harriers Running Club)

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